so you have to find out, okay, i'm going to join, say, penn fed, where is their network of atms? will they be convenient for you. >> i think you said over 90 million people are members. was there a surge in that after the anger at big banks and certainly, you know, what's happened with the economic situation, that a lot more people said i want to go local. i want to find something in my community and support that particular bank? >> exactly. just this weekend i was with a friend from vermont who joined for that reason, to be local. it was only after he joined he found out wow, i'm making more in my savings, i'm going to pay a lower rate. it's almost like organic food, buy your milk from the local dairy, use the local organization, and banks are starting to get their backs up over this. in vermont, banks went to the state regulators and said hey, they can't call that banking at the credit union. so there's a big fight and the judge just said they can. this is going to be an issue because credit unions are lending to small businesses. so they're honing in on banks' business. >> and